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Running Windows on Apple Silicon

DonMcCormack

If been trying to get this to work since I got my new laptop last week. Here's what I've found out so far. I'm hoping, we (i.e., JMP) can agree on an approach to situations when we need to show JMP using Windows but have a Mac.

Currently, Apple processors require ARM based architecture. Microsoft no longer supports ARM Windows 10. SAS does not have a production Windows 11 VM (ARM or otherwise). As far as I can tell, Boot Camp is only available for Intel based machines. I am unsure about VMWare, but suspect it is similar to Parallels in requiring ARM Windows. This thread from the Apple Community is a nice summary.

It appears there are two choices:

Get Windows 11.
Find an emulator that will support non-ARM Windows 10 (UTM: is a possible option)

I currently have a service ticket open to see what approaches are possible/permissible. I'd be curious to hear from anyone who has tried to or wants to do this.

Accepted answers

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Chris_Kirchberg

I have an M1 Max Apple Laptop with VMWare running Windows 11 ARM version. VMWare does not come with windows and one has to purchase a key for a full install (Windows 11 Home, Pro or other edition). You can install Windows 11 ARM based by downloading the .iso file from Microsoft and use it as an image to install in VMWare, but you will not be able to save any personalizations unless you have a valid Windows key,

There are some other things to be aware of when installing Windows 11. It insists you have a Microsoft account and login to that Microsoft account. Very, very annoying. There are work arounds to skip this process. Here is one.

I do have issues running JMP 18 on Windows 11 Pro within VMWare. Basically it installs but does not launch. It goes go through the JMP License Verification but then does nothing after that. Subsequent launches does nothing. JMP 17 does launch and work. Maybe this is related to VMWare?

As a side note, JMP is not supported on ARM processors (not tested) so tech support will not be able to help.

Mark_Bailey

This recent article in MacWorld is about this matter.

nick_shelton

@Thanks @Chris_Kirchberg for those details, do you know if we have a strategy for supporting ARM processors in future releases of JMP?

Chris_Kirchberg

None that I am aware of. I think that is a matter for Dev Ops and PM to decide. Since there are Apple computers have either ARM or x64 chips I would think it would be OK. They would have to test things like a Surface and Lenovo (and probably other PCs that use ARM chips) to see if there are issues.

DonMcCormack

JMP 18 does not run under Parallels using ARM Windows 11. When initially launched, the validation screens show up, but that's it. When launched again, it briefly shows up in the Task Manager, but then disappears. JMP 17 works. This is the same behavior as VMWare, I'm wondering if it's a JMP 18 thing.

Jeff_Perkinson

The most expedient and easiest solution is to request a Windows 365 - Cloud PC.

This is a fully supported and managed PC system accessible via remote desktop. No VPN to SAS is required to access it, though you can VPN from that PC back to SAS.

It has access to OneDrive so all your files can be as you expect on both your Mac and the remote PC.

I've been using Windows this way for more than a year and find it very efficient.

Chris_Kirchberg

Thanks @Jeff_Perkinson ,

Unfortunately that does not work in areas where we do not have internet access and visiting customers who do not allow Hot Spots (our phones).

There has to be a way in which we can show JMP using a Windows OS on a Mac where we do not have access to a Cloud PC ( I have this by the way and it is expensive. ~$900 for a year for the middle option of 4 cores and 16 GB of RAM, ~$1600/yr for 8 core 32 GB of RAM).

Would be nice if we could check out a physical Windows OS machine for these instances, but I do not think that is an option for Remote people (or maybe SAS IT can give us a second laptop with 16 GB RAM, which is about $1600 for their mid-tier one that should be good enough).

I think for now, we will have to rely on our colleagues who do have Windows OS based machines to do our presentations (make sure that we have at least 1 SE with us who does).

nick_shelton

@DonMcCormack @Chris_Kirchberg I don't have a Mac so I'm not familiar with all of the nuances as it relates to using JMP but are the differences so great that a windows JMP user would not be able to follow along with a JMP demo on a Mac machine?

Chris_Kirchberg

We have a few customers that insist on seeing JMP from Windows/Windows version of JMP. It does look a little different and there are some nuances, but it is more about the customer insistence than ours. Most customers do not seem to care.

stan_koprowski

Don,
As you have figured out you are able to have a Windows VM running on the Mac OS using Apple Silicon. However, an installed application would need to be built for the ARM architecture or be built to run under emulation. The main issue is the Windows version of our JMP.exe is not compatible with ARM architecture only Intel. x64 apps would need to be built using ARM64EC ( "Emulation Compatible").

But I might be completely off base here in my understanding of how our application has been compiled.

I was able to download UTM and configure Windows 11 as the guest OS.
I mapped the network drive and downloaded JMP17 and installed as an administrator. The installation completed successfully. After updating the license file to my surprise I was able to launch JMP17.2.
I then repeated the process with JMP 18.1 and was prompted to create my software authorization. With a VPN connection established I was prompted to authorize using the optional method without internet access as the automatic authorization did not succeed.

notification to authorize software

Manual authorization request

And after supplying the response code and clicking ok the software authorization was granted.
However, the software did not launch.

DonMcCormack

There are differences beyond look and feel. The Mac Home Window lacks much of the functionality found in the Windows version. Menu customization is much broader and simpler to use in Windows. The menus outside of Analyze and Graph differ to varying degrees. Below is a comparison between the File menus

Screenshot 2024-03-27 at 4.15.48 PM.png

There are also functional difference relative to file access and DB setup.

DonMcCormack

Stan,

Was it ARM Windows 11? If so, I'm not surprised. Both @Chris_Kirchberg and I have tried to do this without success (me with Paralells and Chris with VMWare). If not, that's disheartening. I've been trying to get my Windows 10 VM that SAS IT created to install and launch JMP 18, but haven't been able to access my Mac directory structure (using UTM). I haven't tried to download JMP 18 directly yet which I assume I'll be able to do but which will likely take some time. I have found UTM to be exceedingly slow, to the point that keystrokes show a perceivable lag.

DonMcCormack

I've given up on looking for a local solution, I don't believe a suitable one currently exists. JMP 18 doesn't run under ARM architecture and the emulators that can be used with Apple silicon to run Windows 10 (or nonARM Windows 11) are either too slow (UTM) or don't work (Wine). I will work from a cloud based VM to do any Windows related prep work and either rely on connectivity or presenting on a colleagues Windows based machine.